Two great matches today as the Handball World Championships really get going.
All times are Egypt Local (CET is 1 hr behind; US ET is 7 hrs behind) Odds courtesy of Bet MGM
NOTE: Breaking News: ESPN+ will be airing two matches/day for the remainder of the tournament.
If you want to watch the matches that aren’t available on ESPN+ check this article for how to watch geo-blocked matches on YouTube: Link
Group E
1900 Austria vs Switzerland (-1.5) (on ESPN+) (YouTube) w/English commentary
2130 Norway (-1.5) vs France (on ESPN+) (YouTube) w/English commentary
The first match would have been Austria vs Team USA (sigh). The second match is the match of the day; Maybe the match of the entire preliminary round. France played Serbia twice in Euro 2020 qualification, losing the first match 27-24 and drawing the second 26-26. Both matches, needless to say were lackluster performances. Will they wake up for this showdown vs Norway?
Algeria and Morocco play in a match that will likely decides who advances to the Main Round. Portugal and Iceland play for the 3rd time in just 9 days as by coincidence they are also in the same Euro 2022 Qualification Group. Portugal won the first match in Portugal 26-24 while Iceland won the return leg 32-23. Iceland was actually down 12-13 at the half, but dominated the 2nd half by a 20-10 score. Can this momentum carry over for this third match?
Egypt won their opening match over Chile yesterday. Sweden and N Macedonia look to join them with 2 points. N Macedonia’s late entry means that 40 year old Kiril Lazarov will get the opportunity to play in 2 World Championships hosted by Egypt. Yes, he was there for the 1999 edition, I wonder how many retired players feel a little bit younger when they see him play and realize there’s still somebody around that they can say, “Yeah, I played against him.”
Belarus and Russia clash in a match with no political ramifications. Slovenia should have no problem with S. Korea especially now that I’ve just found out that they’ve sent their B Team to the World Championships.
Croatia: Runners Up at the 2020 Euros they are my pick to win the title. They looked solid last week vs Spain, a 31-28 victory, despite missing some key players who should be back in time for the Main Round.
The 2021 IHF Men’s World Championships start today (Wednesday, 13 January) in Egypt. Here’s some info on how to watch, what the odds are, some links to previews and a few predictions on who will in it all.
How to Watch
How you watch the World Championship will depend on where you live and whether there is a TV contract there.
USA Web Streaming: In the U.S., ESPN reportedly will broadcast 31 matches on its streaming platform ESPN+. ESPN+ is available via several streaming platforms like Roku and Amazon Fire. However, the announcement regarding ESPN+ has been removed from the USA Team Handball website and ESPN+ has not updated their schedule to include handball matches. (I’ve been told that this is just a temporary development and I will update when I hear more.)
IHF 2021 Men’s WC YouTube Page: Link The IHF will be web streaming every match on YouTube, but these matches won’t be available if your country has a TV contract. This article lists every country that has a TV contract.
Pirated Web Streams: Of course, there are other options available. As sure as the sun comes up tomorrow there will be dubious websites offering live streams of marginal quality. I wouldn’t recommend downloading anything from these sites or paying them anything.
IHF YouTube Site (with VPN): One can also use a VPN service and login from a nation without a TV contract to access the IHF stream. I personally use VPN Nord, but there are other options available. Using VPN is not an ideal solution and I prefer to watch via a paid service like ESPN+. It doesn’t cost that much and you get a more reliable picture. But, if I can’t pay to watch… I don’t feel very guilty about using VPN. And, since some WC matches won’t be available via ESPN+ I will be using VPN to watch them. For more on how to use VPN read this article: Link
For the preliminary round the match schedule typically has 1 late afternoon match, 4 early evening matches and 3 later evening matches. In the U.S. the timing of those 3 viewing opportunities are 9:30 AM, 12:00 PM and 2:30 PM (US ET).
Tourney Format: The preliminary round consists of 8 groups of 4 nations. The top 3 of each preliminary group advances to the Main Round. Groups A and B form Main Round Group I, while Groups C and D form MR Group II, Groups E and F form MR Group III Matches and Groups G and H form MR Group IV. 4th place teams will play in the President’s Cup. Matches from the Preliminary Round (among advancing nations) also count in the Main Round. The top 2 teams from each Main Round Group will then advance to the Quarterfinals.
Preliminary Groups A and B / Main Round Group I
In Group A Germany and Hungary are the clear favorites while Cape Verde and Uruguay should battle for 3rd place. Spain is the big favorite in Group B while Brazil, Tunisia and Poland are relatively even and will battle for the other two slots. For a more in-depth preview check out Chris O’Reilly’s Group A preview at Stregspiller.com.
Spain is all a big favorite to win Group I while Germany and Hungary are expected to battle for 2nd place. Germany’s roster is missing several athletes that chose to not attend the Championship and it will be interesting to see how their replacements perform. Brazil is an outsider, but has been known to surprise in the past. A key factor, however, may be how much COVID has impacted their roster.
Preliminary Groups C and D / Main Round Group II
Croatia and Denmark are big favorites in Group C and D, respectively. I won’t be surprised, though, if Japan knocks off Qatar. With the Olympics coming up, I think Japan has extra motivation to be ready for this tournament. In Group D, I also see Bahrain as capable of beating Argentina.
Really hard not to see Denmark and Croatia advancing in this Group and I like Croatia to also beat Denmark, but that may depend on whether Karacic is healthy by the 2nd week of the tournament.
Preliminary Groups E and F / Main Round Group III
Both these Groups have 2 favorites and 2 outsiders. The favorites will battle for points to take into the main round, while the outsiders fight to avoid the President’s Cup. The Norway – France match starts the competition and could decide who wins Main Round Group III.
I like Norway to win this Group, but I won’t be shocked if France loses to Portugal which has their number in recent tournaments. The only thing that has me guessing is Portugal’s recent defeat to an Iceland team without Aron Palmarsson. It might well be a 3 way between those teams (France, Portugal and Iceland battling for that 2nd QF slot.
Preliminary Groups G nd H / Main Round Group IV
In Group G, it’s hard not to see Egypt winning, but I think late entry N Macedonia can pip Sweden for 2nd place. Sweden is the big favorite in Group H, but I think it’s actually a 3 way fight for the other 2 spots. Yes, S Korea could surprise here. They still have a chance to qualify for the Tokyo Olympics and they may be more ready than other teams because of that.
Egypt didn’t look particularly impressive in their opening match vs Chile, but I still think that hosting the tournament gives them the edge here. I also think Slovenia, which seems to be pretty healthy will join them in the Quarter Finals.
Odds to Win the Championship
Previews and Predictions
(Un)Informed Handball Hour Podcast (Part 1: Hipster Teams): Link
(Un)Informed Handball Hour Podcast (Part 2: Main Teams): Link
Team Handball News Podcast (Betting Focused Review): Link
ESPN Broadcasting Handball in the U.S. Our handball world is about to change.
Yesterday, USA Team Handball announced that 31 matches of the upcoming IHF Handball World Championships will be broadcast on ESPN+, ESPN’s streaming platform. Pretty big news… Right? Actually, no, it’s not just “big” news.
In fact, It it the biggest and most important development in the entire history of team handball in the United States.
Long time readers of this website shouldn’t be surprised by my hyperbolic statement as I’ve been saying this in one way or another for years. Why friends will know that I’ve been espousing the critical need for more handball on TV since the late 1980s.
Most prominently, I’ve stated the following prediction several times: If handball were to be broadcast on a regular basis on a network like ESPN, virtually every statement discussing handball’s progress in the U.S. from that point forward would start with these words:
“Well, after handball started being shown on ESPN…”
Pick how you want to finish the sentence. Here are some possibilities:
Collegiate handball really took off with an expansion to several hundred clubs
Youth programs expanded in several cities feeding the collegiate programs
USA Team Handball had year on year membership growth of xx%; Along with accompanying increases in website visits and social media engagement
Merchandise sales of professional handball clubs in Europe gradually increased as more Americans became fans of the game
The quality of stateside play improved dramatically
The level of stateside talent making our national teams starting improving
One Marketing Objective Above All Others
As I highlighted in this commentary from last year getting more handball on TV more trumps all other marketing objectives for the sport… because it’s a true force multiplier that greatly improves the likelihood of better results in all other areas.
So after many years of frustration why are we finally celebrating such big news? As with many great successes it’s the result of a combination of things.
Better European Engagement: For starters the Europeans and the IHF have finally recognized the need for an American market and are starting to put some resources in place to make it happen. The handball world can bemoan the granting of a wild card to a USA team, but actual USA participation in the WC made it a more attractive TV product to ESPN.
Education on Finding the Right Network: Over time, through a variety of means, the key handball content owners now fully understand that not “just any ol’ network” will do for the U.S. market.
Better engagement from USA Team Handball: While I would have liked to have seen action sooner, I’ll just say I’m real pleased that it’s now taken place. Hats off to new CEO, Ryan Johnson, for helping to facilitate the finalization of this deal. In his first week on the job, no less.
Luck: Behind the scenes some connections were made that facilitated making this deal happen. And, most importantly, that good fortune was capitalized upon.
The Great Experiment Begins
So, will my prediction come true? Will every statement about handball in American now begin with a qualifier about whether is was before or after ESPN started broadcasting the sport?
Time will tell, but I’ve never ever been more optimistic about the future of the sport in this country.
Previous Articles/Commentary about Getting More Handball on TV in the U.S.
Why weren’t the U.S. National Teams at the London Olympics?:
Sep 2012: Part 5: A lack of awareness and marketing: One in a million? The 312 real fans of Team Handball in the U.S.: Link
Oct 2012: Part 6: A lack of awareness and marketing: The Catch 22 TV paradox: Link
Dec 2012: Part 7: A lack of awareness and marketing: The historic lack of European support: Link
Dec 2012: Part 8: A lack of awareness and marketing: Europe sees the light, but can’t quite figure out how to properly invade the U.S. market: Link
Dec 2015: 20 Team Handball Matches have been Broadcast the Past 2 Weeks on a U.S. TV Network: Few Know, Fewer Watch and No One Seems to Care: Link
Aug 2016: The Olympics are Over. Thanks for Watching. See you in 2020. How about Sooner?: Link
Feb 2020: ESPN Missed out on the English Premier League: Will they Miss the Boat for Handball Too?: Link
Everybody loves ehfTV… Just like Team USA this weekend you can check out preliminary group opponents France and Austria.
More 2022 European Championship qualification matches scheduled for ehfTV this weekend. Plus, quite a few Women’s club matches as well.
2022 European Handball Championships Qualification Wikipedia page: Link
All matches are at ehfTV All times are CET (CET is 6 hrs ahead of US ET) Odds courtesy of Bet MGM
Friday, 8 January
1815 CET Norway (-6.5) vs Belarus (Don’t be fooled by this betting line. Norway’s emergency squad lost to Belarus. 33-25 earlier in the week, but now Belarus isn’t sending the first team to Norway for the 2nd match.
Saturday, 9 January
1800 CET Spain (-1.5) vs Croatia (Unfortunately, postponed) 1900 CET France (-6.5) vs Serbia (I’m thinking there’s a Team USA watch party in Denmark for this one) 2000 CET Poland (-6.5) vs Turkey
Sunday, 10 January
1410 CET Latvia (-1.5) vs Italy 1700 CET Iceland (-1.5) vs Portugal 1810 CET Germany (-7.5) vs Austria (I’m thinking there’s a Team USA watch party in Denmark for this one) 2000 CET Bosnia & Hercegovina (-5.5) vs Estonia 2000 CET Slovenia (-8.5) vs Netherlands
American Athletes in Action
The U.S. Men’s National Team is in Denmark and will be playing friendlies vs Danish club teams. If any of these matches are available for viewing I will post web streaming links here.
Euro 2022 Qualification matches available for viewing on ehfTV this week.
There’s not much happening on the club level this week, but there is a plethora of national team competition taking place. Normally, these matches would all be friendlies in preparation for the World Championships, but thanks to COVID-19 related postponements there are ten 2022 European Championship qualification matches scheduled for ehfTV this week with 7 more on tap this weekend.
2022 European Handball Championships Qualification Wikipedia page: Link
All matches are at ehfTV All times are CET (CET is 6 hrs ahead of US ET) Odds courtesy of Bet MGM
Tuesday, 5 January
1530 CET Belarus (-1.5) vs Norway (Don’t be fooled by this betting line. Due to COVID, Norway has sent the 2nd/3rd team to Belarus while the 1st team preps for the WC) 1700 CET Serbia vs France (-5.5) 1715 CET Croatia vs Spain (Slight Favorite)
Wednesday, 6 January
1345 CET Austria vs Germany (-4.5) (I’m thinking there’s a Team USA watch party in Denmark for this one) 1700 CET Turkey vs Poland (-2.5) 1815 CET Netherlands vs Slovenia(-3.5) 1830 CET Estonia vs Bosnia & Hercegovina (-3.5) 2030 CET Portugal (-2.5) vs Iceland
Thursday, 7 January
2030 CET Italy vs Latvia (-2.5)
American Athletes in Action
The U.S. Men’s National Team is in Denmark and will be playing friendlies vs Danish club teams. If any of these matches are available for viewing I will post web streaming links here.
Final Four 3rd Place and Championship (CET is 6 hours ahead of US ET)
EHF Champions League Final Four
Seven months later than planned due to the coronavirus pandemic the EHF Champions League Final Four takes center stage this Monday and Tuesday. It will be a little surreal seeing the normally sold out Laxness Arena in Cologne empty, but it will still be handball well worth watching.
How to Watch: If there is no TV contract where you live the matches will be available live on ehfTV. In the U.S and Canada the only way you can watch will be on beIN Sports XTRA, which is a free streaming service: More Info List of TV contracts by nation: Link Tom ‘Brannagáin will be providing English commentary for all 4 matches.
Odds: Barcelona, which is undefeated this season in all competitions, is a big favorite: Here are the odds for each team to win the tournament:
TSV Bayer Dormagen vs Gummersbach (-2.5) (Wednesday, 1930 CET): Link (VPN required; More info; What I use)
Ian and Patrick Hueter play for Dormagen. Dormagen is on a roll and will finish 202 with a huge challenge, taking on VFL Gummersbach which has lost only one game all season
Would you like to be informed as to when handball can be streamed online? If yes, follow Team Handball News on social media for updates like this as well as breaking alerts for unplanned opportunities like the free HBL matches that seem to pop up from time to time.
The EHF Champions League Final Four will only be on beIN Sports XTRA in the U.S. and Canada
Attention American and Canadian handball fans: If you are planning on watching the EHF Champions League Final Four this coming Monday and Tuesday (28-29 December) on ehfTV I’ve got some bad news for you:
The bane of handball fans everywhere, the dreaded geo-block, will be in force at ehftv.
The good news, however, is that the matches will be available for free on beIN Sports Xtra. beIN Sports Xtra is a free streaming service that is now available with multiple streaming channels.
How to Watch beIN Sports XTRA on Roku
To watch on your Roku, go to your home screen and look for the “Roku Channel” icon. It’s a streaming channel just like Netflix or Hulu and should be readily available. (If not, you can add it just like you would any other channel.) Click on the Roku Channel icon and then scroll down until you see “beIN Sports XTRA” icon. Click on it and the channel should start playing. It’s live so, there are commercials just like what you would see on a TV channel.
How to Watch Over The Air
The Roku channel is also available “Over the Air” on the following digital channels in these cities. Yes, many of us are used to our cable/satellite options, but in these cities you can switch your TV input to Digital and watch over the air in HD.
Another Option: VPN
I guess there’s another option. One could also use VPN to watch from another country. However, as VPN sometimes results in a less quality signal and beIN Sports XTRA is free there aren’t too many good reasons to resort to VPN. I suppose if none of the multiple methods for watching beIN Sports XTRA are available it could be an alternative. More info on VPN: Link
beIn Sports XTRA Final Four Schedule
Would you like to be informed as to when handball can be streamed online? If yes, follow Team Handball News on social media for updates like this as well as breaking alerts for unplanned opportunities like the free HBL matches that seem to pop up from time to time.
Ian Hueter and Dormagen take on Wilhelmshaven in a Boxing Day Matchup
Most of the pro leagues have shut down for the winter break, but the German Bundesliga marches on. Odds courtesy of Unibet.
American Athletes in Action
Germany HBL 2:
TV Wilhelmshaven vs TSV Bayer Dormagen (Pick em) (Saturday, 1930 CET): Link (VPN required; More info; What I use)
Ian and Patrick Hueter play for Dormagen. Dormagen had a huge win over VfL Lübeck-Schwartau on Wednesday and they have climbed the table to 4th place. Wilhelmshaven is in 12th place and 2 points will solidify their place in the standings. Dormagen has one more match to play and it’s a big one. On the 30th they will host 2nd place Gummersbach which is coached by the Icelandic legend, Guðjón Valur Sigurðsson.
Leipzig vs Flensburg (-2.5) (Sunday, 1430 CET): Link (VPN might be required; More info; What I use)
1st Place Flensburg travels to 6th place Leipzig. Flensburg needs every point to stay ahead of Kiel while Leipzig wants to move up in the standings for a shot at a European League slot for next year.
Would you like to be informed as to when handball can be streamed online? If yes, follow Team Handball News on social media for updates like this as well as breaking alerts for unplanned opportunities like the free HBL matches that seem to pop up from time to time.
Istres hosts Montpellier on Youtube Channel LNH TV... Would you believe me if I said saw these two sides play each other in a neutral site match in Florida?
It’s getting closer to the winter break, but there’s still a smattering of matches this week. Odds courtesy of Bet MGM.
American Athletes in Action
Germany HBL 2:
TSV Bayer Dormagen vs VfL Lübeck-Schwartau (Wednesday, 1930 CET): Link (VPN required; More info; What I use)
TV Wilhelmshaven vs TSV Bayer Dormagen (Saturday, 1930 CET): Link (VPN required; More info; What I use)
Ian and Patrick Hueter play for Dormagen. While many of the national leagues have shut down for Christmas, that’s not the case with Germany. In fact, Dormagen has yet another game scheduled for the 30th.
Granollers (-5.5) vs Nava (Tuesday, 1900 CET) Video Link
Would you like to be informed as to when handball can be streamed online? If yes, follow Team Handball News on social media for updates like this as well as breaking alerts for unplanned opportunities like the free HBL matches that seem to pop up from time to time.
Times above are CET. The Bronze Medal Match will air at 9:30 AM (US ET) and the Gold Medal Match will air at 12:00 PM (US ET)
Sunday, 20 December(Herning, Denmark) All Times Local (CET) / US ET is -6 hrs) Odds courtesy of BetMGM
Bronze Medal Match 15:30Croatia vs Denmark (-5.5) (Live on ehfTV) (Commentary: Paul Bray)
The bronze medal match features hosts Denmark vs “just happy to be here” Croatia. Going into the tournament my one prediction was that this tournament would be unpredictable. And, I guess I was somewhat right. Croatia making the semifinals is a truly out of nowhere outcome that no one saw coming. They came back down to earth on Friday vs France and they would surely like to put on a better show today vs Denmark.
Denmark is surely smarting from the loss to Norway. A game that looked liked within their reach, but gradually slipped away. I suspect, however, that they will shake off that disappointment for a bronze medal. 5.5 goals seems about right to me, though, and I’m staying away from any wage on this match.
Gold Medal Match 18:00 France vs Norway (-2.5) (Live on ehfTV and beIN Sports Xtra: How to watch) (Commentary: Paul Bray) EHF Euro website preview: Link
Well, it took awhile for everything to sort itself out, but the 2 strongest favorites going into the tournament will indeed meet each other in Final. Norway looked unstoppable until Friday when they had to dig themselves out of a 3 goal halftime hole vs Denmark. They erased that deficit and went on to win, 27-24. Meanwhile France had no problems whatsoever in their semifinal, easily defeating Croatia, 30-19.
I like France in this match, mostly for their tough, physical defense that can cause real problems for Norway in their set offense. How good can France’s defense be when they put their mind to it? They held Croatia to 5 goals in the first half. Now, obviously, Norway has quite a bit more firepower than Croatia, but that same type of defensive effort should give France a leg up in this match. I like France (+270) to win this match outright.
Will the incredible Croatian fairy tale continue? Photo courtesy of Stregspiller. Check out their Website and Instagram Account.
Friday, 18 December(Herning, Denmark) All Times Local (CET) / US ET is -6 hrs) Odds courtesy of BetMGM
5th Place Match 15:30Russia (-1.5) vs Netherlands (Live on ehfTV) (Commentary: Paul Bray)
The big question regarding this match? Why is it even being played? The EHF is awarding 4 direct tickets to the 2021 World Championships and the 5th place match in many instances would serve to identify the 4th ticket. This is because one of the semifinalists might already have a World Championships slot. However, since Spain and the defending World Champions, Netherlands, both failed to make the semifinal all four semifinalists have taken all the direct tickets. Therefore this match is essentially a pointless friendly. And, really pointless in the middle of a pandemic.
Semifinal #1 18:00 France (-4.5) vs Croatia (Live on ehfTV and beIN Sports Xtra: How to watch) (Commentary: Paul Bray) EHF Euro website preview: Link
Heading into the tournament Croatia were 100-1 odds to win it all. 40-1 odds to finish in the top 3. They’ve been underdogs in all 6 matches they’ve played and they are outright winners in 5 of those matches, losing like every other team, to Norway. And, get this:
The Croatian women have never played in a semifinal at a major international tournament before.
Never? Yes, kind of surprising when one things of all the success the Men’s team has had over the years. Can they buck all the odds and naysayers yet one more time?
I just don’t think so. On paper, France is clearly the better and more experienced team. Strong defense accompanied by fast breaks should make things rather tough for Croatia. Yes, unfortunately, I think this great story will likely come to an end.
Semifinal #2 20:30 Norway (-4.5) vs Denmark (Live on ehfTV and beIN Sports Xtra: How to watch (Commentary: Paul Bray) EHF Euro website preview: Link
Norway has steam rolled over the competition so far barely breaking a sweat. They’ve won the 6 matches they’ve played by an average of 11.5 goals. The Netherlands came closest losing to Norway by just 7 goals. Are they that good? Or… have they largely benefitted from a grouping of weaker competition with a depleted Netherlands side actually being the best team they’ve faced so far?
Meanwhile Denmark has had to fight it out with France and Russia. Could they be the battle tested side ready to take down mighty Norway? Denmark did play Norway close in a couple of friendly matches before the tournament. Losing both contests by scores of 29-26 and 27-25.
Normally, this match would be in front of a packed house with a Danish crowd cheering on the hosts. Perhaps willing the home team on towards an upset. In the time of Coronavirus, however, it will be a rather quiet surreal affair. And, because of this I suspect the clinical Norwegian side will gradually wear down the Danes for a comfortable victory.
Irun hosts Barcelona in a Liga ASOBAL battle at the top of the table. It could be the best chance for an ASOBAL foe to knock off Barca this season.
The Women’s European Championship wraps up this weekend, but at the same time, there’s still plenty of Men’s pro club action. Odds courtesy of Bet MGM.
American Athletes in Action
Germany HBL 2: TV Emsdetten (Pick em) vs TSV Bayer Dormagen (pickn (Friday, 1930 CET): Link (VPN required)
Ian and Patrick Hueter play for Dormagen. Dormagen hung tough with co-league leaders, Hamburg earlier in the week for most of the way, but ended up losing 32-26. They will be looking to rebound with 2 points vs Emsdetten, a team that is currently in the relegation zone.
You also might want to check out this video feature on the Hueter Brothers: Link (in German).
France Pro Ligue: Angers vs Besancon (Friday, 2000 CET): Link
Abou Fofana plays for Angers. Last weekend Angers had a dismal 28-20 loss to Sarrebourg, another struggling team at the bottom of the league table. On Friday night they get a chance to end the first half of the season on a positive note as they host Besancon a team just 4 points ahead of them in the standings.
Spain Liga Asobal: Huesca vs Leon (-1.5) (Saturday, 1800 CET): Link
Circle Runner, Drew Donlin plays for Leon. Should be a good battle between 4th place Leon and 5th place Huesca. <<Postponed due to positive COVID tests>>
Paul Bray: 30+ Years and Over 2,000 Handball Matches
Perhaps you’ve been enjoying the 2020 Women’s European Handball Championship and the commentary provided by Paul Bray for the matches in Herning. What you may not know, however, is that Bray has been commentating on handball for over 30 years. Yes, he was commentating even when I was still playing. I’ll never forget watching watching matches during the 1993 World Championships in our hotel room and everyone laughing at the British voice calling an offensive foul… barging.
The IHF World Handball magazine has a great story on Paul Bray to mark his now 30 years of handball commentary. (See images below; for some reason it’s not available yet at the IHF website) It’s a wonderful trip down memory lane for old timers and some great education for newcomers as to just how far handball broadcasts have come.
Some of the same history was covered in this podcast interview with Paul Bray from the 2007 World Championships in Germany. We even speculated a bit about how web streaming might help the sport in the years to come. Dare I say it: we even seem prescient.
